Valentina importer


#1

hi,

one quick question. if i develop a valentina importer on another sw, say for example 3d max. must it be released with the GNU GPL license? can the importer script for this otehr software be sold? thanks.

cheers,


#2

Hi,

This is my IMHO.

First of all GNU GPL license allows you to sell your work, but with binary you must give access to source code.

If you use our code you must release it under GNU GPL license. GNU GPL license doesn’t protect a file format. Thus, if your implementation is independent you can do what ever you want. Our format is not protected by patents.

Of course as open community we expect all such projects be also part of open source and release by any open/free license.


#3

hi!,

thanks you for your response. the code will run on another sw (ie. modo, 3d max, etc.). i basically reverse engineered the format. i haven’t even seen valentina’s source. my aim is to allow people to use valentina to create the patterns and import them into modo, 3d max, etc. for them to use the geometry there.

just to be sure: so since what i am doing is reverse engineering the format, and this format isn’t patented,… i AM allowed to sell a plugin for this, and i don’t need to release it as GPL, right?

regarding the open community, of course i understand and appreciate the philosophy behind GPL, but in this case i’m not extending functionality nor basing myself on open source code, i am just making a sort of migration from valentina format to another sw pacakge (paid (and kinf of expensive) sw package), so specially due to the latter being paid closed sw, it kind of doesn’t apply.

that said, i do have a meshing algorithm to triangulate the patterns aiming at simulation (as at least for modo, the plugin is already working, i’m just deciding whether to sell initially for the modo community). i may consider open sourcing part of this in the future.

thanks!


#4

Heyla Esaavedra,

Interesting you developed a tool using Valentina. It is great to hear, because it shows how powerful Valentina is. Community wise it would be interesting what future development of Valentina could mean for your tool. In that sense open sourcing it and collaborating/contrinbuting makes a lot of sense and is more fun.

What would your considerations be for open sourcing (part of) it?

gRTz ben


#5

hi benvantende,

well, besides the valentina format importer, most of the plugin takes care of UV’ing, configuring seams (physical ones) to allow the cloth simulation to assemble the pieces, etc. which i guess isn’t general enough and it is too “localized” to the sw package (ie. modo) for open sourcing.

i also have a triangulation option, needed for the simulation of course, which would be terribly interesting to “upgrade” into aligned quads. the current workflow i use to get nice quads is to basically goz the piece into zbrush, run zremesher, and then get it back into modo. simulation works fine with triangles, but the end result is far better if done with quads. i don’t have that much time to spend on this, so open sourcing this part is appealing. scripts are in python.

it also occurs to me this part is more relevant as it is a necessary step for valentina integration into other sws and/or to implement 3d simulation.

will figure out how to organize something and i’ll get back to you guys in a couple of weeks.

cheers,


#6

Please give Roman 15% of sales. You don’t want to take advantage of his hard work for all these years :slight_smile: I encourage you to draft a contract with him.


#7

i will give some money of course! let’s see what sales can be achieved first. regardless of the plugin going live, i will also donate now that you point this out, as i do use valentina myself!


#8

I will repeat. GPL protects only our code. If your work is independent you can do with your work what ever you want. I am not a lawyer, but this seems pretty clear for me.

So, you already begun. And what do you think, is it easy to reverse engineer this pattern format? For me it is far from perfect.

There are only few places where you can find information about this format. Using only Valentina’s output is not the easiest way. Soon or later you will look. :slight_smile:


#9

This looks pretty fair. But if you need my consulting and because your product commercial i would suggest to use @slpencer’s advice. Knowing what’s going on inside of Valentina’s source will help you to support a plugging.


#10

hi dismine,

well, i reverse engineered the format. it is human-readable. i just made a parser. i’m sure once valentina gets a bit more complex a more in-depth look will be necessary (requiring to look into valentina’s source), but at this moment, it is kind of straightforward (i would suggest working on the curves though). please note that my focus is to have an alternative to marvelous designer. valentina’s value for me relies on it’s GUI. i was going to make one of my own, and that was when i found valentina.

i really do not expect to earn much money, but i promise i’ll use the donate option to pass some of the earnings and support the project. to be honest part of my intentions are aimed at helping the cloth simulation plugin makers (syflex) to further develop their plugin, i love it, it is blazing fast, but with respect to them, their GUI … well, it’s not good… i just want to also sell the plugin as i don’t mind (and need) some income in the process.

it also occurs to me that the greatest benefit will be that any person that gets the plugin will need to get valentina, putting valentina on the spotlight. something i also find interesting for you guys to consider… is creating some sort of e-commerce… like what blendermarket has (note blender is GPL too!). actually, if some of you guys have some sort of valentina library with different clothing pieces, i would be saving money to buy right now! (as long as it is not too expensive, i live in south america, and stuff is a bit more “expensive” for us due to the exchnage rate).

i’m not a cloth designer! marvelous designer also sells digital clothing (at basically the same price that the same garmet would cost in real life, hahaha). a way we can all get support for valentina is to create a shop. with the additional advantage that valentina is not foucisng on the 3d modelling groups (kind of small, everyone uses zbrush for this), it basically focus on everybody. anyone that needs a pattern for making a real life shirt, can buy it and printed out from valentina (and adjust parameters too). i think the potential relies there.

in summary, i do not design clothing patterns… but i am in need of some! i will be the first client!

regarding the plugin, i am already using it myself. but in order for it to become something third parties can use i still need to make some modifications, and i am trying to get the quads algorithm to work. the valentina importer is like 10% of the plugin’s code, the heavy lifting resides on the meshing part; there’s also the UVing, and something i haven’t implemented yet, is that i want to keep valentina’s variables. it also requires some sort of GUI. anyway, once i publish the plugin (initially for modo), i’ll let you guys know.

and don’t worry, i of course intend to pass some of the earnings.

cheers,


#11

It is good that you certain that you understood the format. If it is straightforward for you then great. Maybe some day you will return to us with idea how to make it even better.:slight_smile:

Be part of community is not only about money. You can support the community in many different ways. Good advice is also very valuable.

I wish you luck with your project. :slight_smile:


#12

This is currently under development. The beta is live, and we need for Valentina users to post their patterns


#13

I have to tell y’all that it is SO wonderful to hear calm, adult discussion like this! I just popped in to confirm what has been said with solid evidence from a credible source; as long as someone reverse engineers completely without the source, whatever they create is theirs to do with as they wish. It is known as ‘Clean Room Design’, and it is recognized by the highest courts. Ironically, I think that the only ‘conflict of interest’ would be if @esaavedra actually helps with Valentina and ‘muddies the waters’ with his code. :rofl:


#14

Did you read the article you pointed out to? In case of one man the technique is not possible.

There is no way to prove saw he the code or not. But pretty sure the format is not so easy as he thinks. @MrDoo will probably agree with me.


#15

Yes!

The pattern share website is built on a platform that understands XML and understands databases, it isn’t C and doesn’t use Valentina’s source code.

Getting the basics of a Valentina pattern loaded only took a couple of evenings, but that was back in January and I am only just getting to the stage of being able to read and write the entire format (a changing goal post as more great features are added). (This is an evening exercise, not a full time task.)

If you’re just reading a subset of the file and not intending to write compatible output then your mileage will be a lot lower.

Jase (aka Mr Doo).


#16

Hmmm… Good point.

While I don’t pretend to be up to speed on what has gone on before, perhaps it might be a good idea to publish the specifications for the file format. If that is something that might be possible, may I suggest setting up a Patreon page for the project, with a reasonable goal for publishing the spec? That way, if someone wants it, they need to ‘put their money where their mouth is’. A monthly donation setup would also help with the expenses of running this site/etc. I would gladly pony up a little each month to help out, and Patreon makes it easy.

Does that seem reasonable?


#17

Great idea for page to document the Valentina file formats. Should be on the wiki so that all documentation is in one place. Plus, wikis are built for with collaborative documentation.

If you’re using Valentina to make money it would be good form for you to regularly contribute to the upkeep and development of Valentina, based on its usefulness to your business. This is the open source way. Also, you should post what you’ve learned about the format on the wiki. You’re implementing this feature from our roadmap:
https://bitbucket.org/dismine/valentina/issues/227/new-export-3d-patterns


#18

For the site yes, for the file format specification NO. Why? Here is answer:

Don’t be naive. How many people need this information? Who are they? Do they will to pay?

Depend on purpose the format is very simple. Also it is human readable and source code is open. Pure economic, you will pay if it saves your time or you need a license to use a format. I don’t see enough reasons for people to invest in this.

We don’t have the specification because of many reasons: don’t have a time, don’t see reasons why, the format is not stable and changes very quick, it is not a standard and not used outside of the project. Yes, good developers will not say that, but i am not good.:slight_smile:

The same story about paying for features or user documentation.


#19

I’ve looked into creating a Patroen site for accepting monthly donations for Valentina. They don’t have a category for software. The closest category is ‘games’.
They don’t allow a project page which has multiple admins, which makes it not a good choice for teams but perfect for individual artists.

So, as much as we’d like to use Patroen, it’s not a good fit.


#20

While they may not have a ‘software’ category, there are plenty of people with pages that don’t match a particular category, like Snappy Driver Installer Origin (HIGHLY recommended). Valentina would be a good fit.

Can’t you just have a common login for trusted individuals? I also just asked about if they officially support multiple people administering a single campaign. I’ll update when I find out.