Using Data from a Second Pattern Piece to Add to the First Draw Mode

circularlogic
history

#1

I’m Drafting a Front and Back Bodice. The Method I’m using has the Front and Back Bodice as 2 Individual Pieces instead of connected pieces like I have always drafted before. I draft the Front Bodice first as it’s own pattern piece. After it was mostly complete I started a new pattern piece for the Back Bodice. I am able to use data from the Front bodice (such as line lengths, or angles) to help complete the back bodice. Once the back bodice is basically complete there is one final thing that needs done to both pieces. I need to do a shoulder adjustment in order to have the shoulders on the same grain line. I can do this adjustment on the back no problem because I can use info from the front. But I also need to do the same thing on the front piece using information from the back. Is this in anyway possible?


#2

No. In fact, even within a single pattern piece you can only reference data from an element that has been previously created. That’s why it’s best to have an idea ahead of time of what the draft will need so you don’t get trapped needing a length or angle that you can’t access at that point in the pattern.

BTW… if you select the History menu -> History it will show the History of every element created per pattern piece.

Can you post a screen capture or the val & vit files of what you’re trying to do? … maybe I could offer a solution.


#3

The History window that @Douglas referred to can also be used to create objects earlier in the history. Just click in the first column to set the pointer, which by default is at the end. You will then be creating objects at that point in the history, and can refer to them in ‘later’ objects. Use with caution though, and ensure you do lots of saves, as you can break it.


#4

I’m really good about the history thing. I only create objects in the order I need only using things made earlier on. However, This Back piece needs to be created second since I use measurements from the front. But I do need to use the angle of the shoulder from the front to adjust the back, then use that final angle on the shoulder to adjust the front. So there isn’t a way to do that even though the line I want to use would be created before I need to use it on the front piece?

Here is my Front Shoulder. All of these were drafted first. The highest Green shoulder line was my first draft, then Once the armhole is drawn, a second green shoulder line is drawn to the new point on the armhole. This is my first shoulder adjustment.

Then here is the Back Shoulder.

The Highest green shoulder line was again drawn first, then after the armhole was created, The lower green line was drawn as the first shoulder adjustment. I am then able to use the information from the front the create the purple dotted line ( it has the same length and angle as the lower green line from the front shoulder)

With the purple dotted line and the lower green line on my back shoulder, I’m supossed to true up my shoulders to make them the same angle and length. I am supossed to do this by taking some of the front shoulder and giving it to the back ie, lowering the front shoulder and raising the back the same amount. So I found the mid point on my arm curve between the lower green line and the purple dotted line. This I made my final back shoulder, and redrew the final shoulder in black. I then adjusted my darts to come from this line instead.

Then I need to go back to my front shoulder and drop it the amount I raised the back. Currently I have done this by typing in the numerical value that represents how much the shoulder needs to drop. This is the black shoulder line on the piece. I have also redrawn my darts and my shoulder adjustment is complete. But If I change sizes, my shoulder adjustment would no longer be right and I would have to look up the length of the drop and type in the new value into the formula for the line. This will be really cumbersome since I need to recreate this moulage in 15 sizes.


#5

Back depends on Front. Front depends on Back.
A depends on B. B depends on A.

Circular dependencies can be implemented if you do this:
A depends on B. B’ is built from B. B’ depends on A.

To create B’, create a new front shoulder line with info from the Back. Then create a new upper armscye curve using your new shoulder tip point. Use these new objects when creating the seam allowance.

This is what we do anyway when we implement this “circular” method on paper.
Erasing and re-drawing a line is the same as creating a new line and ignoring the original.


#6

This is what I need to do, but since the back is a new pattern piece, not a part of the front bodice, I can’t use any angles, or lines drawn on the back on the front. So I’m not sure how I can draw the new shoulder line on the front using the info from the back.


#7

Use the Intersect line and axis tool.

  • The line is the short line at the top of your front armscye curve
  • The axis origin is the front neck side point (‘axis’ means ‘ray’)
  • The angle is the angle from the back

After the new point is created, draw the line from the front neck side and from the armscye to the new point.

Connect your dart legs to the new line with the Intersect Lines tool.


#8

I see what you are saying, but I’m afraid that won’t work either unless I type in that angle for every size myself since that back angle is on a second pattern piece and it won’t let me use any information from a second pattern piece on the first. :frowning:(


#9

Wow, I checked and you’re right! Can’t access items from Back :frowning:


#10

Yup… I checked myself. I even checked the History… thinking of placing a back element earlier in the history, but found there is a separate history for each piece.


#11

Yes, the ‘pattern pieces’ are entirely independent. This conforms to my understanding from backward engineering of the file format. There was a discussion quite recently about finding a better name for ‘Pattern piece’, as it could tempt people to creating pattern pieces in different drawings even though they are connected. Of all the renaming that was discussed, this is, to my mind, the highest priority as it encourages new users down the wrong route, which then requires tedious rework.

@caychochang, if no one has already done this, I can probably merge your front and back drawings into one ‘pattern piece’ to save you needing to do this manually. Either post the files here, or upload them to the pattern share (you don’t need to share them). You can then create two ‘details’, for the front and the back.

My rule of thumb would be to only create other ‘pieces’ (aka independent drawings) where the only things that need to be shared are ‘increments’. E.g. a dress and its belt could be in separate drawings with the belt width as an increment; as could a jacket and matching trousers.


#12

Here are my files, If you can merge the front and back that would be great. I’m not sure how you would even do that though, so it’s it’s too much effort don’t worry about it. There are 6 patterns here, but the only ones that need to be merged at the farthest left back and right as the others are copies of the left, which then have further things done to them.AA Moulage.val (111.9 KB) CKC Women’s 00.vit (3.0 KB)


#13

Would probably still have to go back and add some elements earlier in the history.


#14

I’m struggling with AA Moulage.val. It claims to be version 0.6.5 of the file format, but according to my just-updated source, version 0.6.0 is the highest. Consequently my build won’t open that AA Moulage.val.

I’m also not clear by what you meant by “There are 6 pattens here”. Within AA Moulage there’s a front bodice, back bodice and knit sleeve, yet the back bodice has no calculation objects. Is it possible that this was the wrong file?


#15

In the detail mode there are only the 3 objects at this point, I haven’t made all the details yet, but in draw mode there are 6 bodice pieces, 3 are front and 3 back, A moulage is the farthest left for each front and back. Then I have a woven sloper with 2" of ease in the middle that I drafted based off the moulage pieces, then I have the knit sloper with no ease, drafted from the woven sloper. It is a lot going on for sure, I am following the instructions of a class I am taking.

I am using this version. I got it from a link sent to me via pm from dismine? I think. I can go back and look, but I think the website is listed in the image. Is this not the correct version to be using? I’m still fairly new to this software, and I know it has recently undergone a lot of changes with someone leaving the project, so I want to make sure I’m using the right software :slight_smile:

6a


#16

It was drafted from a more recent Dismine build. As of today the pattern ver for Dismine is 0.7.1.

The issue is that the forums no longer have anything to do with Dismines build of Valentina.

There are now 2 separate projects which are relatively compatible, but eventually they will diverge and no be so.


#17

Oh, I had no idea. I’ll probably just redraft then in the correct version and connect the pieces as one at the waist, crossback, and hip lines.


#18

What does everyone think about the PM’s from Roman where he tells you where the new forum is, etc.? Roman, we know you’re here!!! :slight_smile: Your rights were lowered so you couldn’t pester people via PM but you still could’ve participated publicly. But you told people that I banned you from the forum, so I upped your trust level because I try not to be a bad person.

But now you’re PM’ing people again. You might as well post publicly. It’s fine Roman!!! You can come out now! Just no more deleting code or taking over my Bitbucket and YouTube accounts! I would’ve given you the old website and shared the YouTube channel if you’d asked…I never kicked you off anything, and was always willing to write those letters to get your visas. :slight_smile:


#19

I think it is a little weird personally, from someone who doesn’t know much about this project before the split it’s been very confusing to get 2 different bits of info. I really like this software a lot!!! and I love all the work that has gone into it from everyone. I’m just unclear how I can help the project move forward more I thought I understood the software I was using was the most up to date and the same as everyone else, but I guess I was wrong. I don’t have anything against anyone, I just wish I it was a little more out in the open. Like Hey we split. If you want to help my project move forward use this software, and vice versa. so others maybe like me can pick and choose a path to follow and actually be using the right stuff. but JMO don’t take anything I say personally. I know nothing about editing software so the only thing I can really do to help is use it, maybe find bugs, but more than likely I’d just assume those were my own user errors


#20

Just have patience. Life has it’s ups and downs. People get mad, then they get over it or they don’t. But please don’t feel that you have to choose, or that you will make anyone here mad at you.

You ARE using the latest code base. I didn’t want to call you out on it, I was happy to help. We’re not making you choose either way. We’re in the unfortunate position of having gone through a fork event, and then having our fork deleted, so we’re a bit behind at the moment, which is why your code is much newer than what is available through our web site. The split was out in the open, about 6 weeks before you joined the forum, so you barely missed the info as it was happening. I assumed you knew, my apologies if this was confusing.

But no matter whose code you use, the people on this forum all want to be better patternmakers and to find the best way to accomplish that. I’m not interested in ostracizing anyone, life’s too short.

If you have a question we’ll help you. It’s very simple, that’s who we are. If you’re using a different code base it doesn’t matter, we’ll assist.

Sorry if that post was a bit off-topic. I know roman’s watching this thread, so I thought I’d let him know that we ALL know he’s here…and he might as well post. Right? :slight_smile: Just come out and say ‘hi’!