# How to use the shoulder tool

#1

I am having some trouble figuring out the special shoulder point tool. What point to I click on first?

#2

Hi @dismine Can you help us out with the shoulder point tool? When I try this tool, the new point seems to always be on top of one of the three input points. I know I’m doing it wrong but can’t find the right permutation of order of points, or my length is wrong, or something is off. Maybe a drawing would help?

Thanks!

#3

That’s the exact problem that I’m having.

#4

I think the old wiki is pretty good in describing this tool:

This tool extends a line segment past one of its endpoints. The extension starts on the second point used to define the segment and ends on a new point. The tool will attempt to place the new point at a specified distance from a third point. However, if the distance specified is shorter than the distance between the second and third points, the segment won’t get extended and the new point will be drawn over the second point.

1. Select the tool.
2. Select the first point of the line segment.
3. Select the second point of the line segment. This second point is going to “attract” the new point.
4. Select a third point, not on the line.
5. In the dialog box:
6. Enter a length, as a constant or as a formula (mandatory). This is the distance from the third point to the new point.
7. If desired, change the name of the destination point.
8. If necessary, modify the first, second or third point.
9. If necessary, modify the line type.
10. Click Apply to see your change without closing the dialog, or click OK to finish.

Example:

#5

On your diagram, which is the first point, the second point, the third point? Thanks, I’m apparently stuck on this one.

#6

The description contains this information:

Select a third point, not on the line.

So A30 (the first point), P (the second point) and A3 (the third point).

This tool covers special case when we know length of segment A3P2, but point place along segment A30P.

#7

@dismine, I am still quite baffled.

The line is A30 to P? The point off the line is A3? I don’t know the algorithm, so I don’t know what I’m getting as a result of selecting A30, P, and A3 and entering a length. How does the algorithm know about ‘n’ (sorry I don’t have cyrillic) to create ‘n2’?

#8

Thing is i converted п to p for you. Tried to make it easy and how i see made only worse. Sorry.

So, let’s try again.

So A30 (the first point), п (the second point) and A3 (the third point).

#9

A. The user creates these points which form a triangle:

1. original neck-side point (A30)
2. point along the original shoulder seam (п)
3. final neck-side point (A3), above the first neck-side point by a small amount.

B. The user opens the shoulder tool and enters the points #1,#2,#3 and enters the shoulder length. The shoulder tool calculates the new shoulder tip point п2 by drawing a line using the shoulder length starting at A3 and ending along the line defined by A30 and п. The new shoulder seam is the line from A3 to п2.

Questions:

• Is the intention of point A3 to add some wearing ease to the length of the bodice?
• Is there a patternmaking book where this method is described and illustrated?
• What are the formulas to create A2, A3, A30, p, and п?

#10

I don’t know answer to this question.

I know only russian book. Don’t know if you can find it in the internet.

To answer this question i need to find that book. Do you really want to know this information?

#11

Yep I really really want to know the book title and author. And if possible, the publisher and publication date. One of my good friends is a Russian translator.

#12

I have found for you that book!

Промышленное конструирование мужских курток (Industrial design of men’s jackets) Авторы: В. Н. Кудряшов, В. С. Павлов, М. И. Смирнов (Authors: V. N. Kudryashov, V. S. Pavlov, M. I. Smirnov)

ISBN: 5-7088-0151-4 Date of write: 1990

https://www.litres.ru/v-kudryashov/promyshlennoe-konstruirovanie-muzhskih-kurtok-18966237/

The case described on page 19.

#13

may I have permission to look at the book? I tried and google told me that I did not have it

#14

I just did a front shoulder and back shoulder with the method in Don McCunn’s book and he requires the drafting of an arc to find the point. I would like to try to figure out the difference

#15

This is the same.

Do you know russian? I just don’t want to share pirated book with all. But i can give the link to website where you can download it yourself https://dfiles.ru/files/whceib0ea.

#16

i do not know Russian however I am fairly persistent with using google translate and figuring things out. Thank you for the link to the website. I will see what I can do.

In other news, as I told Susan recently, I have started using a text editor directly on the xml as a tool to make some quick modifications to get many variations done of the basic sleeve block with McCunn’s instructions.

I spent many years doing assembly language coding and programming in many computer languages. I am a hacker at heart. I will do my best not to bother you with problems I cause myself by using edited xml files. I will do a methodical test to see what differences may exist in different operating system builds when the appropriate time comes.

You do good work and I am delighted to find Valentina. It is a very useful tool.

Thank you again and have a good day!

Kim

#17

This image might help. I included formulas to illustrate the principle. This might not match the exact method of the book, but it shows the general idea.

The user selects the shoulder tool and inputs:

• the shoulder_length
• p1 (point above original neck side point)
• p2 (point along armscye at narrowest part of back - this is a hack at the moment, looking into how this method determines p2, but it’s NOT at the same level as the nape A3) p3 original neck side point

The shoulder tool generates point SHOULDER_TIP

Perhaps the shoulder tool could be improved by reversing the 1st & 3rd points in the dialog.

#18

Thanks, I will take a look at it. I am hoping to get enough info to write an original paragraph or two comparing the different methods of drafting the shoulder. I spent time yesterday downloading the many videos Don McCunn has free on utube. He discussed these in his old yahoo forum while he was developing his on line courses. He has talked a lot about the differences in body shapes and I expect that drafting the arc (which is inherent in the shoulder tool and explicit in McCunn’s instructions) is a method of compensating for the special fitting considerations of many women’s bodies

#19

I guess will wait and hope Susan can share a translated page or two from the book. That website will not let me download unless I pay them.

#20