Default patterns to ship with Seamly

Patterns
5

I don’t think a wrist elastic would make sense on this pattern. The shape makes it stable when sitting on a table, so that is what it is kind of designed to do. A wrist pincussion would be a good one to add though as a separate pattern. I had planned to include a few pincussion designs of increasing complexity. That would be the ‘second level’ one and the ‘third level’ would be something like one of those little tomato style ones with a spherical shape and the little circle on top.

I added the notches to the pattern. I did know where to add them, and even how, but I was prevented from doing so due to a bug in Seamly. I found a workaround in the other thread though so I was able to add notches on all the edges. Here is the new version with the notches. I would say this version is probably ready to ship, unless it makes sense to rename the points on the pattern, although for a simple geometric pattern like this I don’t know that it makes sense to name them differently than they already are.

Pincussion - trapezoid.val (21.5 KB)

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6

I’ve been continuing my work on patternmaking and am moving up the difficulty chain a step or two. I have put together a skirt pattern (which from my reading is kind of the next easiest thing to learn). The pattern is for a basic A-line skirt with pleats. It makes use of the standard measurements from SeamlyMe for the body dimensions as well as a few custom variables for customizing the design automatically.

Regarding naming schemes for the patterns, I am using the _f and _b suffixies for points on the pattern, to keep consistency with how the measurements are named (like waist_arc_f for example). I have also introduced a naming scheme for the custom variables, and this leads me to an idea for a feature request. I have variable names prefixed with ‘style’, ‘fit’, and ‘sew’ for variables that a user of the pattern should adjust and then no prefix (but maybe I should add one like ‘internal’ or something for ones that the pattern uses, but are not meant to be played with unless you are totally redesigning the pattern. Similar to private variables in an object oriented programming paradigm. The ‘style’ variables are for purely stylistic elements like how high up the body does the skirt start and how low below the hips it hangs. The ‘fit’ variables are for adding positive or negative ease, controlling how tight the fit on the body is (which I consider a separate issue from style adjustments). Lastly the ‘sew’ variables are for things relevant to sewing the pattern together, like how much seam allowance to leave on hems or other seams, and other things only relevant during the garment production phase. The unprefixed variables are for things like calculating the number of pleats to apply based on the style choices set, how much extra fabric the pleats will add, and anything else that I use myself in the pattern calculation that a user normally shouldn’t mess with since most (if not all) of these values are formulas and are set automatically once the other measurements are entered.

The idea for the feature request is to add an extra field on the custom variables to set whether they are intended to be adjusted by a user of the pattern or if they are purely for designers working on the fundamental pattern itself. I think it should be more than just a true/false kind of selector, probably a text field with a few standard entries like my ‘style’, ‘fit’, etc outlined above. Interested to hear what others think.

As for the pattern itself, I consider this a draft. I made one skirt purely to check the fit, adjusted the design to add pleats and made a second to ensure the pleat calcs are correct. I want to produce a third, final draft which makes the pleats optional by setting the pleat distance to 0 (and using if statements in Seamly to handle this correctly. I also want to modify the design a bit to make the side seam straighter (or perfectly straight). Currently it uses the waist, highhip, and hip arc_f and arc_b measurements to determine the shape of the side seam. Although this allows the skirt to be much more form fitting, a curved side seam does not play nicely with pleats and looks a bit odd without them. Although the fit is perfect, the aesthetics of the curved seam are a bit off. I would like to know what people here think of the merits of the two options and if a straight seam is better, how to go about constructing on while still approximating the front/back fit as best as possible.

The pleat calculations are done separately for the front and back of the skirt. The user enters variables for the extra fabric to add for each pleat as well as a desired spacing between pleats. Currently the values are set to a desired pleat distance of 2 inches with 1 inch added on each pleat that gets folded in whatever pleat style the sewer is planning on. The calculations the divide the 2 inches into the front and back arcs and round to the nearest whole number to get the number of pleats to use on each segment (for me 5 on each side on front and 4 each side on back). It then recalculates a true pleat distance for front and back and marks spacing guides on each piece with these true values which are very close to, but not necessarily exactly the desired 2 inches in order to ensure a whole number of pleats are put on each segment. I figured it was better to have them be slightly different sizes (in my case less than 1/4 inch difference) than it was to have half a pleat left over along a seam, which would be way more noticeable.

Anyway, here is the pattern file as well as the measurements file used in the design. Obviously if you want to make the design yourself you should swap out the measurements file, but I think it makes sense to include it for ease of testing.

Andrew - 2022-01-02.vit (8.4 KB)

Skirt - A-Line.val (22.0 KB)

7

Actually I think I have figured out how to handle the straight seams on the edges. Going to test it out today and upload the file if the test works correctly.

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8

In other words a “type” dropdown? If it’s a preset list of items, it’s relatively easy to do, if we wanted to add custom user items, it gets more complicated.

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9

Yeah, I guess a type dropdown would make more sense than a freeform text field. I was thinking just leave it freeform and have a few standard types recognized by the Seamly code, but I don’t know what else you would want besides the few listed above.

As far as what seamly does with the variable type that is also to be determined. My initial thought was to have the variables background be color-coded in the table with something like green for style, yellow for fit, some other color for sew, and then something like grey or light red to indicate the ‘private’ ones that a user should not mess with unless they know what they are doing. You could also pop up a ‘are you sure you want to change this’ type dialog if one of the private values is changed with a ‘keep changes’ and ‘revert changes’ responses. (Should probably only ask this once or have a ‘do not ask again’ checkbox in the popup.)

If we need much more discussion on this point we should probably start a thread for that specifically.

2 Likes
10

I finished making the changes to make the skirt side seams straight. It basically extends out the line from the waist side to the highhip or hip, whichever gives a wider flare to make sure it is wide enough. I’m not sure that is ideal, but it seams to work pretty well. This combined with the front and back darts (each of which is independently sized) makes it close around the waist to highhip area and then basically drop straight down past the hips (assuming 0 flare is added in the style variables).

The basic design seems solid, however there is the issue of how to close it at the back. The idea is to use a zipper which has a length computed based on the difference between the waist and hip measurements to allow it to fit over the hips when you pull it up. I think this will work, but someone should maybe double check the math on that.

Currently the zipper length is given as:

  • max(hip_circ; highhip_circ) - waist_circ + 1.5 inch

Also, it might be nice to have a variant which snaps/hooks/buttons at the top hem, and if so, then there should probably be an additional flap of fabric to cross from one side to the other to engage with the button and/or to cover the open area that the zipper would be closing. I need to think a bit more about how to do that, basically should be like the flap on the front of a pair of jeans, but I haven’t figured out how to do that on the pattern yet. If someone wants to figure that out that would be cool.

Lastly, there should probably be some slight tweaks to the front/back allocation of the top and bottom of the side seam. For someone with very different front/back arcs at the different heights (waist, highhip, and hip) it might lead to the side seam not running vertically. I need to think this through a bit. and maybe see some results from people with different body shapes to see how to deal with this issue.

Anyway, here is the pattern - use the same measurements file from a few posts above.

Skirt - A-Line Straight Seam.val (19.6 KB)

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11

It’s not going to sew up well. It breaks one of the basic principles of sewing, where adjoining pieces on either side of a seam should add up to 180 degs, or in most cases corners should end in right angles. Other wise when you sew or hem across a seam you will end up with vee’s Which means for a fitted skirt the waist and hem need to curve. Not to mention the waist darts need to be trued up or the waist will also vee, come up short, and not hang correct. Hint - the seam of the dart should also add up to 180 degs. Another hint… sew a dart in a piece of fabric - cut a curve across the dart like it’s the waist line… then rip the dart apart and see what the pattern looks like - or drape a dart at the waist on a dress form - same difference.

skirt

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12

I’ve also been thinking on the copyright & creative commons laws. I seem to recall that @slspencer looked into these quite a long time ago and it was found that, while it would be totally incorrect to include pages from the different books & methods, sharing the pattern doesn’t apply. If it did, then one wouldn’t be able to create a pattern & sell it or even to wear a garment made from the book.

With this in mind, I think that we shouldn’t be trying to recreate the wheel but rather to put together a set of basic pattern blocks that are complete with all pattern markings, etc., along with a set of individual measurements - that one could change to their own measurements and expect to at least put together a muslin that fits in most of the right places.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

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13

You are absolutely right!

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14

Wenn ich im Bereich der Schneiderei arbeite, gelent habe wie Schnitte aufgestellt werden und damit Maßschnitte oder Kollektionsteile erstelle, sehe ich meine gefertigten Schnitte als mein Eigentum. Darin liegen meine Erfahrungen die ich mir im Laufe meines Berufslebens erarbeitet habe. Bei der Schnittgestaltung hat jeder seinen eigenen Weg. Natürlich greift man auf Bücher zurück wie Grundschnitte konstruiert werden. In meiner Ausbildung habe ich das auch getan. Genauso wie man lernt Modelle zu erarbeiten. Ich habe noch gelernt die Schnitte auf Papier zu konstruieren und bin vor ein paar Jahren erst auf Valentina und dann Seamly gestoßen. Da es für meine Betriebsgröße finanziell unrentabel war mir Programme wie Graffis zu leisten bin ich unheimlich dankbar für diese freie Version. Dennoch musste ich mir viel anlesen um mein Wissen der Schnittgestaltung auch am Computer anwenden zu können. Dennoch bin ich der Meinung, dass meine Schnitte egal ob sie mit Hilfe von Büchern wie Müller und Sohn oder einem anderen Autor konstroiert wurden meine Schnitte bleiben. Mein Kunde zahlt ja auch für den Schnitt, wenn er ein Kleidungsstück von mir kauft. Es ist meine Entscheidung wem und wie ich die Schnitte weiter gebe. So sehe ich das.

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15

In the US, copyright laws as applicable to garment patterns & books… you can’t copy or use the actual print of the pattern. The pattern design itself (or the system to create said) is NOT copyrightable. Clothing is considered a common use item, and as such you can’t copyright the design. If you think about it, if clothing was copyrightable we’d probably all be walking around naked :wink: What is copyrightable when it comes to clothing is a design printed on a fabric used in a garment - that is considered artwork and as such can be copy written. You can’t copy images or use the words verbatim describing a system to create a pattern, but a pattern created from said system is not copyrightable. It’s analogous to music… you can copyright a music score & lyrics of a song, an actual recording of the song, but you can’t copyright music notation or the English language. The same principle exists with recipes… you can’t copyright a recipe, but you can copyright the book or magazine the recipe is printed in or the recipe if:

Recipes can be protected under copyright law if they are accompanied by “substantial literary expression .” This expression can be an explanation or detailed directions, which is likely why food and recipe bloggers often share stories and personal anecdotes alongside a recipe’s ingredients"

That being said… how ever you arrive at producing a set of pattern blocks has already been described by any number of existing pattern systems… so we are just creating wheels from what’s already there.

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16

So, does that mean that someone could draft (on Seamly 2D ) a basic pattern directly from a published drafting book and make it available to anyone here who wants to use it?

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17

Yes, you can’t publish the book or the step-by-step instructions in the book, but you can publish the pattern and measurement.

And out of courtesy, you can mention the name of the book and the author’s name. This will give back to the author in sales of the book.

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18

Yes… otherwise what would the point of all these drafting, design, and grading books be if one could never use the material contained in them to create patterns and garments? What would be the point of schools if you couldn’t use the knowledge you gained?

Here’s another analogy… I often find myself late at night watching reruns of the Bob Ross “Joy of Painting”. While the show is copywritten, meaning you can’t digitize the show or transcribe the words and sell it online… there is nothing stopping anyone from using Bob’s techniques or “System” if you will to make their own paintings to sell. Or record their own show using their own words. In fact Bob often talked about techniques of painting that “sell”.

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19

So to relate back to the original post, perhaps a sample pattern of a skirt following Winnifred Aldrich’s instructions and measurements would be more useful rather than an attempt to réinvente the wheel?

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20

I would agree. In fact to further expand on the OP and expediting the creation of patterns… Most pattern systems I’ve used usually have a basic draft block that all the styles are based on… if those blocks were bundled with the app, a user could save a lot of time by selecting a block template based on the system they want to use. Not to mention it could help new users learning to use the program, and help create a more uniform Seamly style of creating patterns.

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21

This would simplify the project greatly. I was under the impression that the pattern making system itself could be protected, but if it is not an issue then I could much more easily build Seamly files for the basic block designs. I will probably try to look into that this week. You mentioned US law, do we know for sure it would be fine to distribute the software with something like the Aldrich or McCunn blocks included? Is the program US based? If another country, then do that countries laws differ, or is the non-copywriteabilty a worldwide thing?

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22

This was the first thing we investigated in 2009. It’s ok to create patterns with Seamly from formulas printed in ANY pattern book.
The whole point of having pattern systems (look at Seamly Preferences) was to enable easy generation of blocks and patterns for each pattern book.
Unfortunately the implementation of the pattern systems was combined with the implementation of translations. This made our translations exponentially bloated and cumbersome (each language x each pattern system). It also rendered our pattern systems unusable. :crying_cat_face: image

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23

Of course, that’s a given. I was not clear. I meant specifically in regards to this thread and the Seamly program providing pattern blocks for people to start from

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24

If I were to create my own document showing the process (step by step instructions) listing what tool from Seamly2D I used to draw the pattern, include the formulas, measurements etc. used to create the pattern is that copywrite able material? Even if the initial method came from a book. Obviously, I would reference the book. My document would be then used to teach others how to recreate their own versions of this pattern. Example: teaching a workshop on how to draft pattern blocks using Seamly2D.

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